Lindsay Seligman on following her intuition to start unlikely ethical & eco-friendly yoga brand, Oko Living

We have the absolute pleasure of chatting with Lindsay Seligman -  owner of the ethical, eco-friendly, sustainable, and beautifully disruptive yoga brand, Oko Living.  Together, we chat the importance of following your intuition when starting a business, how wellness is as much about listening as doing, & how self worth and self respect go hand in hand.  Lindsay also shares her in depth knowledge on wellness textiles and some of the dangers of mass produced yoga mats and active wear.

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The War on Art by Stephen Pressfield

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Website: okoliving.com
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Transcript

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Like to shift towards quality versus quantity just kind of buying less of higher quality items. And yeah, we all consume I don't think you can barely live in America not probably consumed too much. It's, it's something that we can all kind of work on and think about and just slowly evolve and ruminate. Hi, I am Jaclyn Steele and welcome to self discovery. Howard Thurman so beautifully wrote, don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive, coming alive. That, my friends, is what self discovery is all aware that this episode of self discovery is supported by living libations I was turned on to this company after my hashimotos diagnosis. I've always always loved clean beauty products, but living libations is clean on another level. I'll explain a little bit about why their primary ingredients are plant oils, and plant oils are botanical miracles. When oils are skillfully combined, the mosaic effect of 1000s of plant compounds burst forth with an intelligence and a life force that defines every single living libations creation. This not only makes their products extremely effective, and I can attest to that because the first night I started using them, I noticed a difference the next morning one freaking night, but it also makes these products smell amazing like heaven. In addition, living libations products are cruelty free, they're Fairtrade and almost all the products are raw, gluten free, and vegan. I cannot say enough about this incredible company, I have so many of their products, I have their best skin ever cleansing oil and seabuckthorn I have their rose renewal serum, it's Heaven, I have their soothsayer serum. If you feel like your skin is aging. This is a perfect serum for you the soothsayer serum, I have their happy gumdrops for healthy teeth, I have their shampoo and conditioner, I have their Frankincense toothpaste, I have their deodorant, I have their love butter, I could go on and on and on about all the products that I have from them. And I am mindfully switching out all of my old products in exchange for living libations products because of the efficacy of their products, the mission behind them and the way that the company is run their commitment to diversity and environmental protection. Anyway, all that to say this is a company that I absolutely believe in and want to continue to support. If you are feeling at all overwhelmed by all of their high quality offerings like I was in the beginning, I recommend starting with the best skin ever. In seabuckthorn It smells amazing, and you can cleanse and moisturize with it. Visit living libations.com and use code Jacqueline 12 for 12% off your purchase, living libations calm and Jacqueline 12 for 12% off your purchase. Links are in the show notes. And now back to the episode. Lindsey Seligman is on the show today. She is the founder of the most beautiful yoga mat company I have ever seen in my life. When I saw this yoga mat on Instagram immediately I was like, What is that? Where's this coming from a half to have one. So Lindsey, thank you so much for being here. It's such a treat. Yeah, thank you, Jacqueline. I'm so just honored to be able to speak with you and talk about what I'm doing and talk about all things yoga and business and health and wellness. So I'm very excited to be here today. I love having yoga and business in the same sentence. I feel like that is a marriage that needs to be talked about more and I'm so happy to have you on the podcast because I feel like you are disrupting the yoga market in such a thoughtful and profound way. Which leads me into my first question. What made you want to start such a unique yoga mat company? Yeah. So I guess for those, you know, listening and just a really quick overview of OCO so they know what it is I'm doing is we provide really slow crafted artisinal and ultra natural yoga mats that are made with gots certified organic cotton. They're naturally dyed with 20 different soothing like skin, soothing our Vedic plants like tumeric, and neem, holy basil, hibiscus flowers and like a bunch of other herbs as well, we actually have been our Vedic Doctor Who formulates all of these. It's died using an ancient method that was developed in India. So the method is, was created to preserve the antibacterial and medicinal properties of the plants. And the bottoms are coated in natural rubber. So they don't slip around like other traditional yoga rugs. And they have really great grip with ribs. So you get a lot of the benefits of a natural yoga rug and get to kind of move away from the toxins and yoga mats, which we can get into more later. So they're all super natural, biodegradable, and non toxic. And what's really cool about them is that they're hand looms and hand dyed by artisans. So these mats like really help support valuable cultural preservation in India and support these artisans Also, many of which are women, we try and work with as many women as we can. And so our goal is really to help Yogi's connect more with natural wellness in their practice. And we just released a shock format, which is really fun. And it's so gorgeous. Gorgeous. Thank you, the seven colors of the chakras. So it's like a really cute rainbow mat, and people are really loving that right now. So to kind of answer your question about, you know, what led me to, to this place of creating these masses, um, you know, there's no really linear answer. It's like so many things. And I feel like it's really a manifestation of just interest that I had kind of coming together over time. So I've always really been interested in natural wellness and sustainable living and design. And so Oh, co living is kind of a mesh of all of these things sort of coming together at this point in my life. I've also practiced yoga for about 16 years now. And so national wellness and yoga, you know, really go hand in hand. Mm hmm. Um, so after researching, you know, some of the things that go into a lot of yoga mats, Yoga Clothing, yes, yeah, I was pretty shocked. And I really felt that there needed to be a big shift here. And that Yogi's once they started to become more educated as well, would really appreciate this shift and really love products that were more natural and more wholesome. And, you know, eco friendly and even, you know, wellness promoting, because kind of what Yoga is all about, Oh, it's such a holistic approach. And if you don't mind, would you touch on some of the chemicals that you discovered and yoga mats and in Yoga Clothing, because it's so counter intuitive that we Yogi's are getting on our mats, to go into a place of wellness to go into a place of rest to reset our minds and our bodies. But in the process, we're touching all of these chemicals, or even putting these chemicals on our skin and our skin is the most absorbent thing ever. It's like a sponge. Yes, yeah, it was pretty interesting. When I started researching about it, so yeah, so much to say here. Most, you know, yoga mats, what I learned is that most of them are made out of PVC, which is polyvinyl chloride. And it's one of the most toxic kinds of plastic and for our bodies, and just also it's pretty nasty in the environment as well. And some of these chemicals are known carcinogens. You know, it's like pretty nasty stuff. So from production through its use and disposal, it's really not great for our health. It can, you know, contaminate the environment. And using this type of mat, you're definitely exposed to the PVC through your skin. Yeah, and we're sitting on these mats and practicing on these mats for hours upon hours on a daily or weekly basis. And then also breathing in any of the things that they emit to as we're meditating and deep breathing, which is one of the foundations of yoga. Yeah, they do off gas and our skin, you know, is, is incredible and our skin absorbs and eliminates, like lots of toxins. It actually eliminates about pound of toxins a day, which I didn't realize until I suddenly. Yeah. And so, um, you know, not only does your skin absorb whatever it touches also, like, eliminates toxins and I'll get into like, you know, some Yoga Clothing and interesting facts around, you know, eliminating toxins a lot of are actually kind of trapping, you know, not letting a sweat and kind of like, detoxify. But that's also when we're touching them, our skin absorbs those toxins too. And these toxins have been found inside the body, you know, from research from from clothing and things that we're touching. So it is really important just to be aware about what's our environment, and well, you know, our yoga mats not going to kill us, you don't have to, like, freak out, have you scared. It's just one of those little things in our environment, that's just adding to our toxic load, you know, just one of the many things, from our skin products to our hair products to our food or water. It's just one of those extra things that I think is good to be aware about and think about and start slowly detoxifying, you know, from lifestyle, and yeah, and making better choices and you are making, switching on our yoga mats, a very easy, easy choice. And something that I am so excited to introduce you to my audience. Because one of the things I really want to focus on in season two of this podcast is conscious companies. And being really, really mindful of where we are putting our hard earned dollars. I think it's absolutely vital that we be mindful of the kinds of things not only that we're supporting, which is hugely important, but all other things that we're bringing into our homes, and touching or eating or wearing or lounging on, etc. So, yeah, and I would, I would love for you to touch on some of the fabric research that you've done, because I know you're so knowledgeable on like yoga where and its impact on us as well. So if you don't mind if you could just give us a little rundown of that. Yeah, I mean, intuitively, like plant eyes are just so straightforward, right? It's like fake plants, flowers, roots or herbs and you can create colors with them. It's very simple. You know, it's coming from nature, you know, it's safe. And our dyers that we work with in India, they'll even use a lot of the wastewater to water, the gardens and the pulp from the fertilize. Oh, yeah. So it's um, it's just a simple process. It's, you know, there's not much more to say than that clean. Yeah. And when I started looking into fabric dyes that are used currently I was pretty shocked by some of the info that I found they didn't know this, but fabric dyes textile dyes is the number two water pollutant on the planet after Yeah, industrial agriculture. And I was I was really surprised that I didn't know that I like didn't think about how much how much textile dyeing there is in everything, you know, in our in our lives and and that this runoff goes into the waters, it goes into the oceans, it's a huge, huge pollutants. There's over like, I think 8000 different chemicals used in in fabric dyeing and a lot of them are known carcinogens. formaldehyde, you know, being one of them. They're not regulated, because it's not considered like a food that goes in our body, but it goes on our bodies, on our bodies, our bodies. It's just not something that really, um, it's not a priority for the FDA. Yeah. Yeah, so much is not a priority for the FDA that needs to be a priority. Yeah. So, formaldehyde is linked to a lot of nasty things like increased lung cancer, skin irritation dermatitis. So, you know, about I think a study in Sweden said that about 10% of all textile related substances are considered to be of potential risk to human health. And Greenpeace did a study showing like a lot of activewear of the top brands have formaldehyde still, and I think a lot of the brands are starting to become aware of this. It's starting to become much more of a hot topic. wellness textiles was named one of the top sort of trends in 2019 by the wellness committee, and so people are starting to become more aware of what's in our textiles, a lot of these brands have vowed to sort of change, you know, the types of dyes they're using. So people are really focusing more on this issue, which is, which is good. It's really necessary, you know, to kind of evolve how doing, yes, yes, and it's exciting thinking of, of my listeners? And is there a brand or a company that you do feel like is a good alternative to, you know, big name brands that sell activewear that people could purchase a couple pieces from right now? Yeah, that is such a good question. Um, off the top of my head, I know that there are some that are selling organic cotton, and I don't know of any super accessible ones that are that are naturally dyed. But you know, hard the label comes to mind. Okay. It's more underwear, but they do have some yoga wear that is naturally dyed. And other than that, there's just not a lot. Yeah, there's not a lot. You know, there's recycled plastics, which are more eco friendly. I wouldn't say that they're the most most health conscious for people wearing them, but they are eco friendly, which is a great step. You know, girlfriend collective things like that. But yeah, yeah, I'll have to get you more of a list. Because I know there are some that have safer dyes, like Isa free dyes, safer dyes and organic, but I can't think of their names. You know, well, I'm excited to just be following you very closely, because I feel like you're gonna just continue to disrupt the this space and I'm, I'm totally here for it. Can you? Yeah, can you tell us what OCO means, and give us a little background on that. Sure. So it's kind of, you know, a funny story. I honestly, kind of, I kind of made it up. It's not a made up word, it is a real word, but I was running. And I've honestly found a lot of my inspiration, like visions kind of come to me, when I am exercising, like in yoga, a lot of my visions for photoshoots. And things like that just kind of like come into me when I when I'm doing my yoga practice, which is a beautiful thing. And so this time, I was sort of running outside and I don't know why I can't couldn't tell you. But the word OCO kind of popped into my head. And I was like, that's it. That's the name. And I went online, I was like, it has to mean something and researching and in German, it means ego. And I was like, that was a divine. Yeah, that was a divine inspiration that that could not be more perfect. And so um, the living part of it is just, you know, connecting it to to life living things, like, you know, uniting nature and people and all of life. So. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Oh, I love that so much. Okay, next question. Your company is ethical, sustainable and eco friendly. Why do you feel like it's important for more companies to move in this direction? Yeah, that's a great question. Um, in essence, I really just believe that being ethical and sustainable, it just means that you care about the well being and longevity of others and the environment, right. So I'm not sure who could disagree with that, with that. really imperative, I think, for our survival on the planet at this point, reducing global warming, that that everyone becomes more aware of how we're creating our goods, where they're coming from, how they're being made. And, you know, the more and more that we kind of move into this, like technology focused worlds, the less and less time we spend in nature and the less connected we become within we become disconnected. We kind of forget about its importance. And we forget about the connections that that it, it brings us so I really think it's just important for people to kind of keep reconnecting to nature, learning about nature, for industries to think like nature thinks, you know, creating those loops, Cradle to Cradle cycle of goods that come from the earth go back to the earth, and that it's just a cyclical, healthy kind of system. You work the way nature works, if we're working against For a while always like, lose, right? Always, always. And there's such a beautiful groundedness in that to, instead of having the world revolve around you, you're creating an existence in which you get to participate in the glory of the cycles around you. And I feel like that shift in perspective is also so important. Yeah, yeah, that's beautifully said, I agree. Why do you think ethical, sustainable and eco friendly products are in general, a bit more expensive than their mass produced counterparts? Yeah, um, I think that this has, you know, I'm not an expert in all of this. But from what I've read and learned, I really believe it has to do with just sort of how the industry is set up, you know, mass production, is is based in our economy, and what's economical and what works. And it's, it's started, you know, from the Industrial Revolution, just creating factory lines, mass production, creating things quickly, efficiently. These systems are set up for more chemical mechanical processes, right, they don't really have room to account for natural processes, like natural dyeing or, you know, ethics or environmental concerns as much. And so, it's really about kind of shifting industry so that there's more resources for and the goal and sustainable production, there just isn't resources, there isn't the industry set up to sort of support those ways, we just kind of started going in a different direction, because it was efficient and financially economical, right. So it's having those systems shift and start to think differently in their, in their manufacturing, so that we can support more sustainable systems. And also, you know, natural products are and sustainable and ethical products are expensive, or seem more expensive. Because really, most of our products are too cheap, put in the car, too cheap. Yeah, the costs are externalized. And so basically, what that means is, is the cost is being taken from the destruction of the environment, from the health of the workers working in these factories, those products that you're paying for, you're not really paying to fully support and recoup the damages done to people's health into the land. So that is so important to touch on, and harming ourselves to the cost is to our health and our well being. Exactly, yeah, you can see we are, you know, our environment, our bodies are one in the same, you can't hurt that and, you know, not hurt yourself, and you can't, you know, kind of take advantage of of people working to make these products in other countries and harm their health. It's just, you know, it's not as sustainable. No, and it's not the right thing to do. You know, I, I'm hopeful that as our country kind of turns a new page, you know, today as we're recording this, it's Inauguration Day. And whatever, you know, the listener believes politically, I am hopeful that this is just a shift in energy toward a more positive way of looking at global issues. And I think, another shift that I would love to see happen, and I certainly don't want to shame anybody, because I struggle with consumerism, too. I think in America, it's just so rampant. But something that I find, to be really inspiring is this notion of less but better. So maybe the environmentally, ethically produced product, or environmentally friendly, ethically produced product is more expensive. But for me, I find such joy in knowing that my hard earned dollars are going into a product that is supporting the people who are creating it. It's not destructive of the environment that I love so much. And it's good for my health and my well being. And I feel like not only is that a physical positive thing, but it's also such a positive mental aspect of buying less but better. Yeah, yeah, it is important, I think to ship should like to shift towards quality versus quantity just kind of buying less of higher quality items. And yeah, we all consume I don't think you can barely live in America not probably consumed too much. It's, it's something that we can all kind of work on and think about and just slowly evolve and ruminate on moving you know, towards that and just thinking about the the quality of our products and early on doing our life, you know, I just feels like just the idea of that and moving in that direction feels like such a huge weight lifted off of my shoulders. And this episode is supported by verrucas nuts. These South American nuts are good for you, and they're good for the planet. And additionally, their nutritional value is next level amazing. They have more than three times the antioxidant power of other popular nuts. They have more fiber than any other nut. They're super high in high quality protein. They're mineral rich, they are the nut highest in potassium, and they contain very high amounts of calcium, magnesium, manganese, and other vital minerals. They have 25% fewer fat calories than other popular nuts, and their taste is a cross between a peanut and an almond. I'm eating one right now. And it is a cross between a peanut and almond but it's slightly sweeter. You can easily add them for crunch and depth to everything from your morning bowl of oatmeal, to grain pilaf, sauces, and even pesto. I mentioned before that these nuts are good for the planet. And now I'm going to tell you why verrucas grow wild in South America, mainly in Brazil. And these hearty trees require no pesticides or fertilizers. Thanks to long roots that find water deep in the ground, they don't even need watering the Serato where they grow in Brazil, the most biodiverse Savanna on the planet is under severe threat. More than 50% of its land has been raised to create enormous cattle ranches and industrial farms. Fortunately, deforestation rates are going down thanks to the outcry from environmental groups and other concerned organizations. Supporting verrucas means helping save the Serato these nuts also are ultra fair trade because you know, I do not want to partner with any companies that are not treating their employees like gold. The bruke is not company offer generous compensation to the indigenous people who gather verrucas from the wild trees. This much needed income helps families stay on their land bazookas are the nuts that have it all great taste crazy high nutrition and a positive impact on the environment and on the lives of people who gather them. So what are you waiting for, give these delicious nuts and nut butters or try find them on verrucas.com that's BRUKS calm and use code Jaclyn j ac LYN for 15% off, all of those links and codes will be in the shownotes. And now back to the episode. I want to be totally transparent here. You know, in August, and I think I told you this, my husband and I sold our house we sold like most of our belongings, we sold my car. So we're down to one vehicle, we live in an RV. So we're living kind of tiny. And a lot of the questions that I've gotten have been around getting rid of stuff. And so I think in some ways people are looking at me going, Oh, she's this minimalist, she got rid of all this stuff. But if people had seen and I do have video footage of this, I need to compile a video. But if people had seen all of the stuff that I had in my house, that was so unnecessary. And then people were like, how did you get rid of that that must have been so hard. And I wanted to say none of it mattered. Like none of it. The things that I kept were like my grandmother's Bible, my grandmother's artwork, and books, and I think two pieces of furniture and a couple of rugs. Other than that, like none of it mattered what so ever. And now that I'm on the other side of that, and I'm looking forward into the future, it is such an exciting feeling to think I can choose responsibly and I can choose in a way that considers the whole instead of just me. Yeah, yeah, that I loved. When you told me that story about how you did that. It is super inspiring. It is so difficult to let go of you know our material goods and just even what you did you shifted like the way you live. Like that's not just getting rid of stuff that's like shifting the way you know you move in the world and the way you think about things as well and I myself Yeah, I have a really hard time letting go of items I do live very minimal. But it took years for me personally to kind of get down to that. And I slowly, just every year would get rid of a little bit more or a little bit more. I take like a heap of stuff, and I put it away in the garage or somewhere, I don't look at it. And if I don't think about it, I'm like that needs to go. But for me to just get rid of like, right away. Yeah, that's a great transition. And that's a great tip for people who may be interested in downsizing, but they're not ready to let go completely. And I think also, you know, as we're talking about more conscious living, it's okay to do things in stages. I don't think people need to be extreme about stuff. I think just the more we can be consciously taking steps toward a more mindful way of living. Like that's the right direction. Yeah, yeah. And it can start as simple as a yoga mat. Oh, yes. My heart just left my chest. Oh, yes. Okay. I want to talk to you as a female CEO about mindset. Can you share a story about how you overcame an obstacle in your company that you didn't think was possible? And how you did it? Oh, wow. That's such a good question. Um, yeah, I mean, a part of building this company, you know, once I kind of got on the track of, Okay, I wanted to do something with with natural dyes, I wanted to do something with this really special method that I learned about in India using the Ayurvedic dyeing method and wanting to learn more, and about their culture, I, you know, knew I had to go make a trip to India to do this, right. I had spent a lot of time in my 20s, traveling, and had spent time kind of traveling alone, like as a female in South America, and going to kind of different eco villages and learning from people. And so I sort of had that skill set, but I was still terrified to sort of travel over there and do this. And I wasn't sure if I would be on my own, or, you know, what, luckily, I was able to go with my partner. And so he was a big help kind of, you know, organizing and going through that. But every time you go somewhere new, it's, it's, there's a lot of research and planning and things. And so I'm just getting over there. And the you know, I talked to a lot of friends, and there was a lot of scary stories and things to look out from And so getting over there. I yeah, I just had a lot of trepidation about how I was, how was I going to meet these vendors? Like, how was I going to meet them? How was I going to talk to them, you know, how is I going to get in touch and start working with them? If I think about doing that, in the States, I almost feel like, more overwhelmed, but I just had this intuition that it would all kind of fall into place. And even my partner, he's like, I don't understand, like, what are you doing? How, how are you going to, like, get a meeting with these people? Like how, you know, you just gonna call them and show up or like, yeah, and so I just, I don't know, I just went with my gut, I guess I was like, I just know it's gonna work out. I just know, it's gonna work. I just know I'm gonna meet the right people, I know that this is going to happen for me. And so it really did unfold actually, in a way that was more magical and interesting than I then I thought, just sort of meeting off the bat really like the right people who knew these dyers and vendors and sent me kind of on this, this, like journey, I guess, to sort of meeting all these people and traveling across India and having full days like that I would spend with these dyers, and they would tell me about their philosophy and the history of India and just, it's a really rich experience that going into it. I was scared out of my mind, and I had no idea how I was going to make it happen. I mean, I had done a lot of research and so I had ideas, but I didn't really know how it was going to come together. I didn't have a day to day plan at all. And it just sort of unfolded and it felt so Good and so right and I was so you know, proud of myself for just kind of taking that leap and just going even though it was kind of terrifying, and I didn't know how things unfold. So follow your intuition, like that is so beautiful. You know, there's such a danger and assumptions. And I think, you know, in thinking about your company, I assumed I was like, This girl is so cool. She's traveled all over the world, she probably happened upon these artisans and was like, this is amazing, we should make yoga mats. But it didn't happen like that you had this idea, then you went there, then you found them. And I feel like that is so inspirational. And it reminds me, it reminds me of a Bible story, actually, of the Israelites leaving Egypt, and they go to the Red Sea. And they're waiting there. I think it was the Red Sea. I'm getting my Bible stories mixed up anyway, God said, you have to actually get into the water before it's going to part. And I love that parable. And I think it goes so perfectly with what you're saying. You trusted your intuition. And you showed up, knowing that the waters were going to part the right artisans were going to be put in your path. And now here you are, with this gorgeous company. And I find that to be so inspirational, and hopefully people listening, find that to be inspirational, because you really if there's an inkling that we have in our hearts, it's there for a reason. And it's gonna take guts and gumption and maybe some roadblocks to follow it. But, I mean, how happy are you that you follow that intuition? super happy? Yeah, it was a, it was a long journey of continuing, you know, to follow it for for many years, really, and people kind of questioning me, like, is this business gonna work? You know, what are you doing, and me just being like, I know, it's gonna work like, and I like feel so lit up when I think about how many interests of mine and values of mine hits on sustainability, ethics, like beautiful, you know, quality products, design yoga, and I'm just like, I just know that this is a powerful path, and that people are going to resonate, you know, with these ideas coming together. And there was enough, like moments in my life, where I felt that feeling and had that intuition and like, beautiful things came from it, that I knew that that would happen, you know, again, in this scenario, so well, and you're trailblazing, and I think so often, that is one of the hardest positions to be in, because people often don't understand it at first. And so when you're sharing that idea, people are like, what that can be done. But for you to have the guts to follow your intuition like that. And now to see this beautiful, like, y'all, you have got to go follow her on Instagram. It's at OCO living, right? Okay. Oh, living, because what you have created is just beautiful. Every single part of it is beautiful. And it's intentional. Thank you. Oh, I just it's, I mean, it inspires me to no end. Because when I think about my life, that is how I strive to live, my life is in that alignment of, of course, I want to make money. Of course, I want to have businesses that are successful, but not at the expense of others, and not at the expense of my own well being. Yeah, you know, I'd rather live in a shack than take advantage of people. Yeah, and it's hard. And it takes a lot of work to find what that is. I always knew that I loved healthy living and sustainability. And I knew I had skills in art and design. And so for years, you know, I worked as a graphic designer, and then, you know, marketer to help other companies that were sustainable and eco friendly kind of build themselves up. And that was was rewarding. And it was what I was interested in, but it wasn't like fully rewarding. You know, it wasn't. I really had ideas and things that I wanted to bring to life. And so I love supporting other people, and that's some people's callings. But for me, I always kind of felt like, there was something missing, like there was something else that I could add to this that I can bring, and kind of use my skills to grow my own business and not just you know, the little balls. Yeah. And so I think breaking away from from doing that design and serving and creating my own company, is what's kind of a terrifying leap. Or what I'm so grateful, you know, everything that I did I feel like led to this because I'm so grateful for the experience has taught me To these other business owners and and helping them grow, because I took those learnings and then I was able to like to move on in my journey, but I did probably have a lot of fear and hold myself back from kind of that transition longer than I should have. And I just think it is important to listen and kind of push yourself to like move if you don't feel really fully satisfied in what you're doing. But but also trust the process, like you're learning and building skills, you don't have to be any, in any certain, you know, place in life. I think you just have to kind of know your core values, always push to learn and grow in that, and it will kind of lead you, you know, where Oh, absolutely. I feel like the common thread in this conversation with you is twofold. Number one is what I would call priming, I feel like all of your stories and your life experience primed you to be the owner of this business. And I find such comfort in that because I think as humans, we want to be making the quote right decisions. And we don't want to be wasting our time, we want to be productive. And you know, the American dream, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But what I have found in my own life experience and what you're telling me, it also rings true. The universe God, however you want to label this being allows us all of these experiences that are seemingly random, but they are in no way shape, or form random. They are preparing us for our biggest purpose. And I think you found yours. And I just I want to rejoice at that with you. And then the second theme that keeps coming up in this conversation is following your intuition. And how important that inner voice is. I think so often, we are taught in Western culture to tune out our inner voice and tune in to all of the loud voices around us. And there's so much groupthink. And so I want the listeners listening to this beautiful conversation to know that that inner voice is vital to us creating alignment in our lives to creating joy to creating purpose. Is there anything else you want to add onto that? Yes. Oh, no, that that was amazing. I think it's, I think it's so true. And, and I also feel like, our inner voice manifests itself not just in like thoughts and emotions, but like even your physical wellness, you know, if you're if you're not feeling well, I'm feeling energetic. It's like it's a sign that there's some misalignment in your environment, or in your way of thinking or what you're doing that you need to pay attention to. They're all like kind of alert systems to tune in and be like, you know, what, what is missing here? What do I need, and that search, I think, for health and wellness is a huge part of our intuition. And it's like tuning into our bodies and our minds and listening, you know, our own personal path, right? I think that's so vital. And it's something I struggle with is listening. You know, again, in Western culture, I feel like we're kind of taught to be machines to just go go go, and if you're tired, drink more coffee, etc, tune out to our own detriment. And I was reminded of this, just recently, I was feeling a little under the weather. And the self talk in my head is, well, you need to you still have to get up at 530. And you still have to get ahead of your day, and you still have to blah, blah, blah, when my body is screaming, excuse me. Hello, are you there, I need rest. And it's vital that we listen to that, like get up at 530 on the days that you're ready to get up at 530. But when you're not feeling well, your body needs rest. And that's a sign that your body needs rest your body is talking to you. So I love that you touched on not only the acting on intuition, but listening because I think that that is such a vital part tale. Yeah. Okay. We are coming down toward the end of this podcast, which I'm sad about because I love talking to you so much. But as you know, in this podcast, I talk a lot about self worth, because I believe we can only expand our lives to the level of worthiness that we feel. Can you share a story with us about a moment of self doubt you've experienced or a struggle you've had with self worth? And how you've risen above this doubt or struggle? Yeah. So, I feel like self worth is definitely something that I've struggled with and thought a lot about, I spent, you know, many years before this business and even during this business, so it's an ongoing process for life. It's not like I've overcome anything, and I'm some guru, but I spent a lot of years, you know, before building this business, being in debt, like working over 10 hour days and weekends, and not really taking care of my body. And, you know, my company is still sort of a baby, so I'm still working a lot. But I really feel like I have made a big shift in kind of taking care of myself. And to me, that's one of the biggest, you know, acts of, of self worth, and self value. And so I definitely believe like, every man, every woman, every child, every human, every being is, every living thing truly is, is intrinsically, you know, infinitely valuable and infinitely worthy. Right, no matter what, no matter where they are in their life. And for me personally, like, Well, I know that this is a truth. Um, I still feel as if it's really important to, to do certain actions and movements. For me, at least Personally, I found that certain things really helped me feel and embody this self worth more than just telling myself I'm worth a year or kind of knowing it on on some esoteric level, right, and, and so I kind of feel like I need to walk the walk. And so for me, personally, this kind of means choosing to be true to myself, trusting myself standing in my own power. And, you know, women are truly gifted, I think, with intuitive, you know, abilities. Absolutely. And so, it took me like years upon years to really listen to this and trust myself. And I used to kind of, I think a part of this was sort of coming out, like, stepping out of a victim mentality, I used to kind of like blame people outside of myself, or circumstances, maybe for misfortune, or trauma or lack of abundance. And, you know, this isn't to say that trauma or bad experiences are aren't your fault. It's just more to say that, you know, you have 100% responsibility for the story and how you respond to, you know, these events in these circumstances, I'm just raising my arms to guess. So that was something that I really, personally needed to learn. And I can see looking back, you know, that when I blamed others, for something going wrong, it was really, myself not listening to my intuition. I wasn't speaking on myself, I wasn't creating healthy boundaries. I wasn't leaving unhealthy situations. And so that's part of my responsibility that I needed to take. And when I show up for myself, and I create healthy boundaries, I have those hard talks. I really listen and tune in and value my needs. That's the way I show love for myself. That's the way I say, I'm here to protect you. I protect me, you know, yeah. self worth in action. Yeah. I love that. I Oh, that's so beautiful. Yeah. And that that was probably a very hard learned. lesson for me. And I'm still learning it. I still feel like it's fairly new that I kind of keep wrapping my head around what that means and what that is. And, you know, it comes from kind of going through some suffering and some lessons and just being like, wow, I really like I'm blaming other people and it's like, no, Lindsay, you do stand up for yourself. You didn't protect yourself, you, you know. Like, it is a beautiful thing to be a trusting person and foot trust and love in the world. And that's the ultimate goal. But you also need to teach yourself that if there is a circumstance that that is toxic, that you will protect yourself right and up for yourself. And so, to me that that's where my feeling of I think self worth was lacking. It was truly me not being my own protector, looking for it from the outside sources and expecting others to be doing that for me. And again and again, I kept running into situations in which that wasn't the case because the universe was trying to tell me Hey, you know, wake up, this is a sister. And yeah, you know, once you learn that, I really think that those kind of safe circumstances you open up, you leave the unsafe circumstances and you open up loving friendships, loving relationships. Isn't that amazing? You start to attract a whole different life. Yeah. And then and then you're like, Wow, look at this, this life, I'm living look at the good things coming to me. I'm worthy. And it's like, you brought that right. So yes, I feel like I relate to everything that you said. And I have a tendency to be a people pleaser, I'm also very trusting. And I think my journey into a much more healthy level of self worth, started really shifting when I started respecting myself, and respecting my boundaries. And so I think everything that you just said, is so spot on. And not only that, it's a tangible takeaway for listeners to go, Hey, in this moment, Wherever I am, am I respecting myself in this moment? Is this the mark of a woman or a human that respects himself or herself? And if not, what can I do to change this scenario? Yeah, it's like, what would you tell your best friend, you know, like, Are you telling yourself what you would tell your best friend, you know, and most of the time, you're not. Or at least I found that I was No, me neither. In this situation, I'd like shaker and be like, Hey, girl, no facts, you know? Oh, yeah, I'd be going in there with like, a helicopter. Like, more. One, one, you me, lady? We're out of here. Yeah, yeah. And I think that in moments where, you know, because for a long time, I hadn't practice doing that, um, there were moments where, like, I might not have honestly, like, felt worthy of something, but I knew I was and so for anyone who's like struggling in a trick for me, that I found was kind of like, fake it till you make it kind of, yeah, pretty cool. Yes, I knew on some level what was right to do, but I might not have felt worthy or like, unsure if I would be able to get it or achieve it or, and I would just, I would just speak it and speak it out. And like, no, this isn't Okay, you know, this is what I want this is and just kind of move towards it and my words, and even if I didn't like feel it yet, even if I didn't feel like oh my god, yes, you're worthy. Of course, like, you know, this should be a boundary that you know, this, you know, and, and it just helped me move through that, like you don't, if you're coming from a place of just still not feeling worthy or feeling low and not quite good and confident in yourself. I don't know. For me, I kind of faked it to make it in a while just because, yeah, it helped me move towards it and start practicing. I think saviors Oh, that's such a valuable piece of advice. And I think, you know, for me, this includes Me, too. But, listeners, we're never going to know until we try. And, you know, when you see somebody successful, I think it's easy to think, well, they have the confidence, they have the connections, they have the blah, blah, blah, but so often they started in the same spots that we did, they just kept putting themselves out there and trying. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so we're toward the end. I want to do some rapid fire questions. Lindsay, are you ready? Sure. Okay, good. What do you take comfort in? I definitely think my family you know, my family. Brings me so much comfort. Beautiful. What instantly brings you joy? a sunny day is much instantly joyful for me. I feel good. You're a nature woman and I love it. Oh, I love it. I love it. Who are what has been your greatest teacher? I would say pain well, emotion and especially pain and emotion. Those are always just as our teachers You know, they're our friends. Really just to learn to listen to them? Mm hmm. Oh, yes, I relate to that favorite book. So, I am not a huge reader. I love learning in many, many ways, but I do I found a lot of value in the War of Art by Steven pressfield. I love that book. You've read it. So yes, yeah, it's a quick read. But it's powerful. And anyone struggling with like procrastination or self doubt who's a creative person or maker thinker? You know, it helps you feel not alone. It is such a self worth booster. Yeah, that might be a book that I need to read. Like every year. It's so good. Okay, best piece of advice ever been good? That is such a good question. And it's so hard to think of, you know, one best piece. What comes to mind is just, you know, last night my boyfriend reminded me He's like, you are whole, just as you are. And I just think that's really sweet. That's just a good thing for everyone. Kind of here, you know? And yes. Oh, that's so beautiful. Oh, I love it. And I love him for saying that to you. Okay, what do you want our dear listeners to take away from this episode? Yeah, I would just love you know them to start kind of looking at the world a little differently to see how they can change and adjust their world to be more in tune with their wellness and nature and just Yeah, kind of design and design your world design your environment to really boost you to, to your fullest potential and little what you can start just in little ways, and sometimes those are, you know, the most powerful. Oh, so impactful. Oh, Lindsay, thank you for being here. Last question is Where can people find you online? Yeah, well, OCO is at OCO living.com. We're there we're on Instagram. Those are the main places you can reach out to me by email if you have questions at Hello at oka living calm. I love talking to people and talking about this stuff. So yeah, yeah, perfect. And I will link all of those in the show notes too. Thank you so much for this. I cannot wait for people to hear this because I feel this. Like this information is not only like physically really important, but also really hard. Important. Yeah. And thank you so much. I really really enjoyed talking to you. And I hope we have you know, more conversations. I love where you're at that and please the information that you're talking to people. And yeah, it's really great work you're doing so I appreciate you having me be a part of that. Oh, it is my honor, my dear. And if you ever want to come back you let me know