Self-Worth with Jaclyn Steele

Thyroid health, hope, and treatment with the Hashimoto’s Healer, Dr. Marc Ryan

• Jaclyn Steele • Season 2 • Episode 63

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Dr. Marc Ryan - the man who literally wrote the book on Hashimoto's - is here with us today to chat optimal thyroid levels, top tips for managing Hashimoto's, diets and calorie restriction, nutrition suggestions, the throat chakra, emotional trauma, and hope for the newly diagnosed.

He is revolutionizing the protocol for those with Hashimoto's and making this autoimmune disease something that can be managed and even put into remission. This is a DO NOT MISS episode for anyone with a thyroid condition.

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Unknown:

And, and some important areas I think are things we've touched on diet is a very important area. One of the, you know, triggers of autoimmunity and something that triggers the immune response is what you put in your gut, most of your immune system is in your gut. So anything that goes through there is going to have an impact. Hi,

Jaclyn Steele:

I am Jaclyn Steele, and welcome to self discovery. Howard Thurman so beautifully wrote, don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive, coming alive. That my friends, is what self discovery is

Unknown:

all about. Where that man

Jaclyn Steele:

so you probably already know this, but most of us are not breathing properly. That is why breathwork is having such a moment in the wellness space right now and hopefully a very long like forever moment. Because not breathing properly messes up our very biology. shallow breathing can lead to heightened cortisol sweating, increased heart rate among other health issues. It can also increase our anxiety and lead to panic attacks. Deep breathing on the other hand, prompts a calming response to the brain helps to release toxins from the lungs, loosen our glorious muscles and decrease our blood pressure. What if you could ease anxiety and breathe deeper without any kind of medications? What if you could do this with a simple product that was inspired by ancient wisdom has scientifically proven results is endorsed by psychiatrists, and designed by a therapist. I am so excited to introduce you to the shift by kumbu. So design, I'm wearing it right now as I'm recording this, and it is a beautiful and simple necklace with an apparatus that you breathe through. And this little necklace helps you to control your breath. So you can decrease your stress hormone cortisol, slow down your heartbeat, decrease blood pressure, loosen your muscles and come back into the present moment. The shift was inspired by colusa monks of 17th century Japan, they used a bamboo shakuhachi flute as a healing modality and a method of attaining enlightenment. Love this. This shift also provides stress relief backed by science, you can just visit their website to see all of the amazing results that they have created. It's so simple to use, you take a deep breath and you exhale through the shift. You relax and then you repeat five more times. My husband and I both have a chef necklace and we love them. I have the gold version. It's so gorgeous, and it goes perfectly with all my other layered necklaces. And my husband has the charcoal version which is masculine and minimalistic I love the weight of it. I love the way it feels around my neck. And I also love knowing that at a moment's notice I'm feeling a bit of stress. I can stop and breathe through this and come back into the present. It is something that I wear almost every single day and I think it's something that you will absolutely love to check out this stress transforming necklace at commu. So design that's KOMUSODS ign.com and use code Jaclyn j AC l y n for 15% off your shift necklace. Now back to the show. I am so privileged to have on the show today. Dr. Mark Ryan. He's an herbalist. He is somebody who practices functional medicine, you know Chinese medicine and you are an expert on hashimotos thyroiditis. Thank you so much for being here today. I am again, thank you for having me. Oh, anytime, anytime, anytime. So before we begin, can you give us a little synopsis of what hashimotos is, and some of the symptoms that often accompany it. And the reason I asked that is I feel like over the last year in 2020 people are at home people are realizing how sick they feel how achy they feel. So what might be some symptoms that people could look out for to go Hey, you really should go get your hormones checked.

Unknown:

Great question. Yeah. So hashimotos is an autoimmune disease of the thyroid. And what that means is, for whatever reason your body loses its ability to, we call self to have self tolerance, and your immune system starts to attack your thyroid. And it's a progressive disease. So there could be, you could be at various stages of, you know, exposure to that. And that can look very differently in different stages. So for some people early on, you can have hyper symptoms, sometimes inflammation of the thyroid,

Jaclyn Steele:

my dog, don't worry about it, I have dogs too, I can edit anything out.

Unknown:

Sometimes the employer inflammation of the thyroid, can cause your own thyroid to produce more thyroid hormones. So you can actually develop hyper symptoms. But for most people, eventually, it winds up being hypo. And what that means is, you know, your thyroid controls the metabolism of your body. So everything essentially slows down. So the most common symptoms are fatigue, brain fog, and cognitive issues like memory problems or concentration issues. People often have trouble losing weight, like, normally, they would be, you know, wouldn't be gaining weight as they do. And all of a sudden, they start putting weight on and they can't seem to, to lose it. The hair loss is another common symptom, brittle nails, dry skin, what have you. So these are all common symptoms of hypothyroidism. And then also longer term, because the thyroid is so influential in the entire body, it can cause issues in basically all the major systems of the body so it can affect the liver, and affect cholesterol metabolism. So some people sometimes it's like, their cholesterol goes way up. And it's like, what I didn't change my diet, but that happened. Like I said, the brain is impacted, the stomach can be impacted stomach acid can decline that can affect you, how you absorb things can affect the gut, it can affect the adrenals and autonomic affect the entire body. Yeah,

Jaclyn Steele:

it really is such a complex disease. And the more I learn about it, I love learning about it, because I feel like I'm empowering my healing. But it can be overwhelming

Unknown:

be totally overwhelming once you write if you're just first being exposed to it and learning about it. Then partly to because of the way you're feeling because of it, you know, it's exhausting fatigue, and everything else can make it harder to like process things. Yeah.

Jaclyn Steele:

And for me, my symptoms were extreme fatigue that I thought, you know, in the beginning of that fatigue, I was like, Well, you know, I'm in quarantine, I bet my body is just tired from all the years of hard work. But then I gained weight, seemingly overnight. I mean, it was in like a five day period. And that's when I knew like some I need to check this out. This is not normal. So I have your book. It is like an encyclopedia on hashimotos. It is fantastic. Oh, absolutely fantastic. And you have a cookbook, too. So I'm gonna link both of those in the show notes. But

Unknown:

not a cookbook? Oh, there are. There are some recipes in it. But really, it's about how to use diet strategically, when you have different types of things that happen. Perfect. It's more about thinking about diet, and applying different strategies when things happen.

Jaclyn Steele:

I'm so glad that you clarified that it's on my Amazon wishlist. So that's something that I'm going to be picking up next. I thought I would start with one and then go into the next one.

Unknown:

But here's the either copy that one.

Jaclyn Steele:

Oh, perfect. Perfect. Yeah. And I love that you speak specifically on Hashimoto. So obviously, I've had several clubhouse conversations with you. We're having a conversation. Now. I'm familiar with your work. But for people who are new to you, can you give us a little synopsis of why you are so committed to helping people with hashimotos? Yeah.

Unknown:

Well, the short answer is I have hashimotos. And one of my children also have it. So it's very personal. It's funny. I initially, you know, I've been in practice about 20 years. So when I first started in practice, I was kind of a generalist, working as an acupuncturist and treat a lot of different things. And then I had this really big practice was a multidisciplinary clinic with lots of employees and huge space and it was like very stressful business. But it was pretty successful for a while but like the stress, really got To me, and I kind of got burned out. I think that was one of things that led to me actually being diagnosed with hashimotos. But through that period, I had a couple partners, and we've split up in closing the business and all stuff happened. And then I decided to get some business training. And one of the first things I said in the business training was, what's your niche, you need a niche if you were going to be successful? I was like, geez, I don't know, I have a bunch of thyroid patients, I thought I would just, I would specialize in thyroid issues. And then, lo and behold, I went through this whole process, and then I got diagnosed after that, after I made that business. So Oh, wow. It was, it was fate. So really, that's what inspired me, you know, both my own experience with it. And then the frustrating experience of working with doctors, I've actually been diagnosed with a couple different autoimmune diseases. And both times really, the doctors ended up saying, Well, yeah, you have the markers. And yeah, you have some symptoms, but it's not really bad enough yet. So when it gets bad enough, we'll do X, you know, we'll take some action. Which if you really think about what that means is they're just gonna let it continue to progress until it gets worse and worse, until you're so bad that they have to take action, which like to me was like, oh, sense, no, no. So when I was first diagnosed, I had my antibodies were very high, but my thyroid numbers, the other bloodwork was in the normal range. So the doctor didn't want to put me on medication. But I was feeling terrible. I had all the symptoms that you described, I was super fatigued, I was I had like, gained about 20 pounds and bloating and inflammation. I had terrible brain fog, I was having memory issues and forgetting people's names and things that people had known for years. And I was like, really, obviously, things were not going well. Not right. But but I ended up leaving the doctor's office with like nothing to do really. So that was sort of one of the inspirations for have to learn about this, like the process that you went through to, you know, I have to learn about this. It's obvious that the western medical model does not have much to offer, especially in this earlier stage, where it's not progressive enough for them to want to do anything. Yeah, you know, so that was that was the first inspiration for me to really start researching and studying. And, you know, I spent many, many years studying Oh, and you did?

Jaclyn Steele:

Yeah, you've treated 1000s and 1000s of people, and I'm so grateful to have come across your work. Because I am somebody who's very much a go getter. Like I said, I was diagnosed in August, and I have been like, what do I need to do next? What do I need to do next, I want to get better and better and better. And my numbers now are to a point where my thyroid levels are normal. My antibodies are still slightly high, but I'm on my way. But what I'm finding is your work is the catalyst for getting me to that next level. Because my endocrinologist fair and nice, man, I have nothing bad to say about him. But when I asked him about diet, he was like I said, should I give up gluten? Do I need to cut back on sugar? I've read this and this and this? And he said, Absolutely not. There are no studies correlating, changing your diet and the health of the thyroid. And I was like, that doesn't sit right with me.

Unknown:

Well, that's not true. But studies that correlate those those things. Oh,

Jaclyn Steele:

I know that. And now I know that. But it's from reading your work, that I have derived hope that I can live a pretty normal life. If I focus on managing it, I can't let it go. I can't continue to do what I'm doing. Right.

Unknown:

It's a thing. It's really, I tell. Sometimes people freak out like, Oh, my God, this huge changes, what's not really about what you can't do, it's really more about what you can do. And it's creating a lifestyle that will support you in this process. And

Jaclyn Steele:

it's actually pretty empowering, because going from feeling fatigued all the time and going, Well, maybe that's just normal. Maybe everybody feels this tired to now, feeling like I have energy and I have my life back. I mean, there's nothing I wouldn't do no changes I wouldn't make to get to that point. So I thank you so much for your work, because it has affected me so deeply. And I know it's affecting so many other people positively as well. No, thank you. Yeah. So for this podcast episode, I generally come up with questions myself for guests, but with you I thought, I want to ask my listeners who are so interested in hormone health, what questions they have about their thyroid and about hashimotos. So if you don't mind, I'd love to ask you those listener generated questions. Okay, question number one is for As someone who has been newly diagnosed with hypothyroidism or hashimotos, what tests are really important for me to have done? And can you go over what optimal thyroid levels look like? Cuz I think that's really confusing for people to, you know, we've got TSH and T three and people go, What does any of this mean? No?

Unknown:

Yeah, great question. So there's a number of different things. Normally, most doctors in most endocrinologist will just test TSH, and sometimes also T for TSH stands for thyroid stimulating hormone, it's actually produced in the pituitary. And what happens is the body sends signals to the pituitary and the pituitary is the master endocrine gland. So it ends up interpreting those signals and then sends messages to other glands and the thyroid being one of them. And so TSH is kind of like an inverse marker. Because when you're hypo thyroid or when your thyroid is, is, is functioning lower than it should be or not functioning up to its capacity, then TSH actually goes up. So it goes up when the thyroid goes down. And then the opposite is also true. TSH goes down when the thyroid goes up, and it's producing more hormone. And it's in, when it goes really down. Sometimes that's an indication of things like graves disease, which is another autoimmune disease with the thyroid. But that results in hyper activity, the thyroid instead of hypo. So TSH is an important test, it's helpful, but it really is, tells you more about pituitary function than thyroid function necessarily, but it is an important helpful test that absolutely has to be tested and the range and that there's not a great deal of agreement that used to be between point five and five, which is a pretty, very wide, huge range, then it was the endocrine society, I believe, readjusted it to between point three and three. So some doctors use that old range, some doctors use the newer one. There's what we call in the functional medicine, the optimal functional range is 1.8. to three. Think about, I think it's one thing to remember, altogether is and I tell people all the time, that the way you feel is actually diagnostically relevant and clinically important with regard to thyroid hormone and thyroid hormone in the tissue of your body. Because you can really feel when you don't have enough. So that's all something to remember that k, we look at these numbers, but what they are on paper is not necessarily what's going on with you. Because sometimes people will have enough in their bloodstream, but they still don't feel well. And then they can be essentially functionally hypothyroid. So somewhere in there between point three and three is probably the best way to think about it. But again, it's really relative to where you are and where's like your optimum range for how you feel. Then the other tests, I think it's important to test the antibodies is TPO and TGA B antibodies, that's thyroid production days, and thyroid globulin antibodies. Some doctors don't even care about those because the reality is in the western medical model, they don't do anything differently. Whether it's autoimmune cause or not. autoimmunity is not the only cause of hypothyroidism. There are many other potential ones. But the reality is most in the western medical model, it's just you are put on thyroid hormone. And that's it anyway. So for many doctors, they don't even care if you're autoimmune or not. But I think it's very important because we need to establish that there's autoimmunity, then there's all these other steps, we want to take a different approach. Right? So we want to work in a different approach. And then also, I think it's, it's helpful to periodically check in on that and see where you're trending, you know, are we able, if we took these interventions, like change your diet, like you're talking about, we stop having gluten and dairy is one of the things does that cause the antibodies to go down? Sometimes it will. Sometimes being put on medication will actually impact the level of the antibody. So I think it's helpful periodically to check in on that, although it's not really a direct connection with how you're feeling either with the antibodies. Then other tests. T four is a test. That's not terribly helpful actually, to determine tissue levels of thyroid hormone in the body. But what happens with the thyroid once it's impacted by the TSH the Tutera send signals with my cat the the thyroid produces thyroid hormone so it just naturally about 12 parts t four to one part t three, t three is is very biologically active. And those, that thyroid hormone is bound to proteins that has to be freed in order for it to work in the body. So there are tests to test all those various things that total t four is both bound to protein and unbound. T for the total t three is also bound to protein unbound. And then you can also measure the free fractions, the free t three and the free t four. And there's something else called reverse t three, which is the body's way of taking that T three, which can actually because it's so biologically active can actually cause problems, the body has a mechanism for actually shutting it down and making it inactive. And that's called reverse t three. So depending on who you're working with, if you're working with someone who's knowledgeable, they will order more of those tests. And then you know, with testing, the key is know what to test and then know what to do with the data that you get from the test.

Jaclyn Steele:

And that is such a difficult, I'm so appreciative that you're talking about the importance of how you feel when your thyroid levels are off, because my experience has been, that's not really taken into consideration. And I know people talk about how important it is to be an advocate for your own health. But I feel like with thyroid disorders, specifically, you really have to advocate for your health because there isn't, there is so much that is not known about it. And so many endocrinologists and even specialists are confused by it. Right?

Unknown:

Sorry. That's the other problem. Again, that's the idea of like, what's the right data? And what do you do with that data? And then, right, so that's the thing, bearing in mind that how you feel is important, then when you get a test result, you can see you can kind of compare like, okay, is this really reflective of how I feel if I if the needle moves, somehow the T four goes up? Or if the TSH goes down? or what have you? Does that make a difference in how you feel? So that's another important consideration. It's always in the context of that, that we look at these test results. Unfortunately, some doctors will just say, your Look, you're great on paper, you know, your numbers are great, but what's wrong? You know, in three months, you're doing well, no, not necessarily. There are many reasons why your numbers might be great, but you might not be feeling good. Like that's when we when I was first diagnosed, there's one thing I learned. And in my book, I talked about this, it's something called functional hypothyroidism like that. When you have thyroid hormone in your bloodstream, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's being converted properly, right, you have to take this T for it's gotta be converted into T three, it's got to be transported throughout the body, and then released into the free fraction. So it can work that a lot of things can interfere with that process. So those are other things, we have to be aware of that just because on paper, you look great, you might not feel great, because you may have problems converting thyroid hormone, you may have problems absorbing it, you may have receptor resistance on your cells. So there's various reasons that can cause biodome for not work properly.

Jaclyn Steele:

Yeah. And there's a degree of patience required in which is something that has been a big struggle for me, because usually, if I have a problem, I'm like, I'm an action taker, I take action, and I'm done with it. And so this has been a learning experience. But I will say, in most ways, a positive learning experience frustrating and humbling physically at times. But I would say, overall, I'm learning so much about my body and my mindset. And the way I approach my work, is that overall, it's been a blessing in disguise.

Unknown:

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely a degree of experimentation. We have to try things. Sometimes. Sometimes they'll work sometimes they won't work. And then write there's a degree of patience of like, giving things time to work to Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And there are a lot of things I think, too, that are not just about taking a pill. You know, some things require changes in your behavior. Like we were talking about diet, some dietary changes can be helpful. And sometimes other things too. They're really important, like, what's your sleep cycle like? And you know, what's your exercise level?

Jaclyn Steele:

I'm so glad that you brought that up, because that leads right into the next question. And that's something that I have struggled with because immediately My first thought was okay, I have hashimotos How can I change my diet? I did not consider Well, I did consider I just didn't take it nearly as seriously, but how little rest I was getting and how much stress I was allowing into my life. For people who are in the throes of hashimotos right now and just feeling so sick. What are some of your top tips For getting it under control, and is there really hope that someone can have a normal life after they've been diagnosed with hashimotos?

Unknown:

That's the last question. Yes, I absolutely do think there's there's plenty of hope that you can turn this around.

Jaclyn Steele:

I agree.

Unknown:

Close. Will it be easy? Not always, but but there's lots you can do. And, and some important areas, I think are things we've touched on diet is a very important area. One of the, you know, triggers of autoimmunity and triggers the immune response is what you put in your gut, most of your immune system is in your gut. So anything that goes through there is going to have an impact and that's why it drives me nuts when doctors say like, oh, die doesn't matter. Diet matters hugely when it comes to autoimmunity. Yeah, so that's important. So I mean, I think two things and easily to try cutting out our dairy products and gluten both of them are potentially problematic. Both can cause an immune response and both can cause problems with absorption of thyroid hormone. So

Jaclyn Steele:

Wow, I didn't realize it caused problems with absorption

Unknown:

very often. So it can be for a number of reasons. But with with dairy pigou there's there's two issues. There's lactose, which is the milk sugar, and then there's the proteins, the casein and other related proteins those can cause both can potentially cause problems with absorption. And gluten also, because gluten can really impact to your gut and the veal is in the small intestine, which small intestine is an important place for thyroid hormone conversion, and absorption. So so both is random. And often we'll see this too if people will get off of them and their their medication will start working better not have to adjust the dosage, because you actually improve the way it's functioning in the body.

Jaclyn Steele:

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Unknown:

well Both things can cause a stress response. So, Fujii can cause an inflammatory response, which is physiologically stressful. So it could be that stress itself can impact the thyroid pretty dramatically. Also, you know, when you're stressed through your adrenals, can release cortisol, cortisol can have an impact on insulin can have an impact on thyroid hormone. So that's important thing to realize. That's another area that's really, really important. I think diet wise is your blood sugar, blood sugar balance, it's one of those areas, it's To me, it's like a fulcrum, where you can really really have tremendous influence on your, your emotions and your energy levels, if you just by balancing your blood sugar and avoiding big spikes and big crashes. That happens with people a lot. And that has a huge impact on thyroid, hormone behavior and thyroid hormone conversion. So that's one thing and then sleep is also a really big thing. It's also tied in with diet and blood sugar balance. And, and the thyroid, like your your circadian rhythm is your basic natural rhythm can have a big impact. And you know, today's world with some times we lose track of how important sleep is. And because we have our computers, we're out at night or on our phones or watching TV or you know, zoom call. Yeah. And that can really impact just your natural rhythms. And that can throw a lot of things off. So, yeah, a few simple things that are all can be really helpful and really impactful.

Jaclyn Steele:

Yeah, I've found that the simple things have had the most impact for me. And just being more mindful of like, not checking my phone all the time and not responding right away to every single message that comes in. You know, I just I can't. So I would really like to hear about the way that diets This is from a listener, about the way that diets and calorie restriction can affect the thyroid, as well as the way stimulants and stimulant based medications like ADHD meds can affect the thyroid. Okay. And I think to what I have found in the circles of women that I've talked to with hashimotos, a lot of us have a history of disordered eating. Yes, I'm included in that pool. So I think that was kind of the crux of her of her question.

Unknown:

Um, yeah, so, the issue one of the issues with diet and autoimmunity is the reaction to dietary protein. That's what gluten is a dietary protein we're talking about dairy for casein is a dietary protein. There are a number of foods actually, that are what we call cross reactors that are similar enough in protein structure to gluten that you can have an adverse effect to them. And what happens with those is they end up causing an immune response. And depending on what part of your immune system is already overzealous with autoimmunity, they can trigger that to be worse. So that can be a big factor. And, you know, one of the approaches that I like is is something called the autoimmune paleo diet, which is a diet that cuts out a lot of foods that are inflammatory for a finite period of time for usually like 30 to 60 days. And one of the benefits of that exercises, you reduce all inflammation, you let your immune system calm down. And you can really get a sense of this dramatic sense of like, holy cow that, me know, what I was eating really did impact me, you know, sometimes there's night shades, sometimes it's, it's nuts and seeds. Sometimes it's it is dairy gluten, you know, there's various number of foods that can potentially cause this immune response. So I think that's important. And part of that immune response is that we're talking earlier is inherently stressful, and cause a stress response. So the second part of question, we're looking at that stimulants, like ADHD drugs like Ritalin and things like that are going to call and caffeine to really behave similarly, is going to cause a response in your adrenal is going to cause it releasing cortisol often or releasing other stress hormones, like epinephrine, norepinephrine, and those, all of you know that the body is everything is connected. So when you take certain steps, like it has a ripple effects beyond just the one thing that you're doing. So that that's what, to me, that's the genius of Chinese medicine. That's what I write about. In my book, I look at Western physiologists also look at Chinese medicine physiology because what we learn from nature and Chinese is that everything is connected your emotions are connected. Your your mind your thinking is connected, your physiology is all connected. And it all influences each other. So none of these things are separate, they all have ripple effects. And for some people, it's, they're really dramatic. So it's important we know part of what we have to do in healing is to kind of peel away the onion and and on on, you know, there's all these webs of dysfunction where we have to undo all these webs and, and and take them apart. And part of this process is is simplifying, and and reducing the things that cause that are triggers and that cause the immune response.

Jaclyn Steele:

Well, several things. I love your approach to treating people because it's so holistic, and it's the web of things going on, rather than just one thing. Here's a pill, let's go. Now the thing I wanted to touch on, I am going to do your paleo diet. I've started this process, but I have been a vegetarian for 10 years. And so starting to incorporate meat into my diet has been really scary. not scary, but a huge change for me. And so one of the questions that came into was around eating meat. Is there a way to approach healing hashimotos without eating meat?

Unknown:

Yeah, I do address that in my second book about how to use diet strategically. You can there's definitely a vegetarian version of the autoimmune paleo. Um, well, that being said, um, so I mean, it's certainly possible. I've worked with people doing that, um, you know, some of the protein sources for vegetarians, one of them is soy, and soy can potentially be problematic with thyroid issues. So that's, you know, that's a potential, it makes it harder. It's harder, but it's certainly doable. But I mean, the other thing to think about, just in a bigger sense to that being said, is that, you know, is there a benefit to having meat and being healed actually, the author of the autoimmune paleo cookbook, and her name is Mickey trescott. She was for many years a vegan vegetarian. And then she was also someone who went through hashimotos. And then she ended up changing her diet, and then adding particular foods that are really, you know, nutrient rich foods like organ meat, and things like that, which total opposite here. And that's a big step too far, but, but there's something to be said for, you know, good grass fed organic meat that because it is nutrient rich. And truly something organ meat, like liver, for example, is like, like a living vitamin, in a sense, it's full of, you know, B vitamins and, and iron, and other things. So, I think that's part of what you have to factor in is, you know, how, how much healing needs to be done? And is that extra bit of nutrients? Will that help you in the process?

Jaclyn Steele:

No, what I found so interesting is for the last 10 years, have not eaten meat. And right around the time, I was diagnosed with hashimotos, I started craving meat. Interesting, it was so interesting, because I have not craved it. And normally, when I have cravings, it's for like, an egg or peanut butter. Like, it's like something that my body really needs like healthy peanut butter, not like Jeff. And so when I started to crave meat, I thought, there's some kind of correlation here. And while I don't want to participate in concentrated animal farming, or in humane treatment of animals or anything like that, when somebody is in a position where the quality of their life has decreased so dramatically, that they don't want to get out of bed or their hair is falling out, or they have such brain fog, that they can't focus and can't hold a job. There comes a point where I go, Well, I think it might be necessary to look at this and switch up the way that I'm approaching this and be responsible about it and be respectful about it.

Unknown:

Right, and that's in my second book, that's the one thing that I focus on is that, you know, things are often change in the body. And, you know, sometimes we have to make adaptations to get better and to heal, you know. So that's what you're describing is an example of that. Sometimes that step can really accelerate your healing. By doing that, you know, it's it's hard. Some you know, some people have philosophical reasons why they don't want to eat meat, and that's, that's certainly something to be honored and you know, and you're right. There's like the commercial farm. Farming is devastating for our planet and for for many of our, you know, hell's the, the meat of the commercial meat that's full of antibiotics and horrible stuff, you know, other chemicals is not is not conducive to healthy there. So we want to try to make healthy choices as best we can all rather and you know, if you have that philosophical commitment then like I said, initially it is possible.

Jaclyn Steele:

Yeah. Well, I love that I love that there's an option there. Um, so do you have any insight into the correlation between the throat chakra and thyroid conditions? That is a listener question.

Unknown:

As soon as your question. Yeah, um,

Jaclyn Steele:

I love that one, too.

Unknown:

Yeah. That's one of those more woo questions, but I definitely I think that way, too. Um, I mean, I think one of things about the throat chakra is is you think about it. In a way, I think we all can relate to this, it's, it's really, it's connected to communication. You know, so, one of things that I've learned about in my own life and seen in a lot of my clients is that sometimes trauma is a big part of, of illness, also. And part of that, you know, going through trauma is, is, you know, for some people, they just shut down. And, and, and through that process of, you know, trying to deal with the experiences they had, they, you know, one way of doing that there's flight, fight or flight, but there's also just, you know, like some animals who think about them, like the possum will just play dead, and totally shut down. And sometimes we do that metaphorically. And, you know, and and the choice we make is to just keep quiet, because for whatever we maybe it was a survival mechanism at some point in your life, or, you know, that's how you got through that trauma. Yeah. So I think that is very real part of that chakra is it's about communication and learning how to express your voice. And to find your voice again, if, if that's true for you, you know,

Jaclyn Steele:

it's so interesting. My I have a very varied background, I went to Baylor University, and then I did Teach for America. And then I became a full time musician. I recorded I got a record beer, like all of the things. So I'm somebody who has used my voice, literally, to sing. But then, after my diagnosis, I started doing a lot of reflection, I realize I have intellectualized all of my feelings. And I've not felt them. I think God has created a block. And then I started researching metaphysical manifestations, like what causes thyroid conditions, and one of the things that came up was unexpressed emotion. And I find that so interesting, and so ironic that I am a singer, like literally, I've used my voice. Yet, in my personal life, the trauma that I've experienced, I've talked about it on this podcast. So that's not anything new. But the trauma that I've experienced, my way of dealing with that was to intellectualize it, you know, put it in these neat little boxes, and then move on with my life without really doing the work of releasing it. Yeah. And so I think that is a really big part of my healing, is expressing myself in ways or in areas that maybe I wouldn't have prior to August of last year. And I feel like that's opening up some channels of healing, which also leads in to the next question. What kind of role do you think emotional trauma plays in thyroid health and recovery?

Unknown:

Yeah, I think huge. I think it's a really big issue. And you know, some of those things that your doctors probably not going to consider, not at all, probably not going to talk to you about what trauma you've gone through that led to your hashimotos but I think it's a big factor. And, you know, the more I've learned in my life, and more, I've worked on myself, that's one of the things that I've had to face too, I think is that you know, that emotion and trauma plays a very, very role. And that's another insight in Chinese medicine to in Chinese medicine, they're different emotions are associated with different organs and organ systems. And the thyroid, interestingly is the gland of the metal element, which is the lungs and large intestine and the emotion that really impacts that most dramatically is grief. So it's kind of unresolved grief and and you know, not properly mourning or not, you know, Again, going back to trauma or having a traumatic experience, but not really processing it, or, you know, living through it.

Jaclyn Steele:

I mean, I relate so deeply to all of that. And this conversation is so serendipitous to in my meditation this morning, I felt this voice say to me, it's time to let go. And I think to what I want to share in this conversation is I've been doing self discovery work, self improvement, personal development work for almost two decades now. And so what I want to encourage listeners in is this, it's a cyclical thing. It's not like you address it, and it's done. And then you never ever have to speak on it, or look at it again, in my healing journey, and in my experience, it's a cycle where you kind of go in a circle, and each time you go in that circle, the circle becomes smaller, and you get a little better and a little better and a little better. But for anybody that's feeling super discouraged that they haven't healed or haven't moved on from whatever emotional trauma they've experienced. I think that's normal,

Unknown:

I think. Yeah, it's not it's not something you just fixed with a. Yeah. And what is it usually, I mean, some people I guess, do but for most of us, ongoing process of the ebbs and flows. Yesterday, I did a post on this shows just reflecting on someone was critical of the saying, Well, you can't heal Hashimoto as well, but I thought, well, healing is not a destination, you know, it's a journey. So we're all we're traveling, that that journey, and we're going to be times we're gonna make progress, there's times we're gonna, we're going to relapse a little bit or, you know, take a few steps forward and step back. That's part of the process. And it doesn't mean you failed, because you took a step back, it just means that's where you are in your journey. You know, and it's ongoing, I think, for our lifetime.

Jaclyn Steele:

And I feel like those setbacks for me have been frustrating initially, upon further reflection, such an opportunity for me to go deeper. And what I'm finding so profound about hashimotos is that it's teaching me how to treat myself in an infinitely more loving way.

Unknown:

Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's, that's part of the process, too, is like, if you do something happens, that causes you to slip Well, what? What's going on or anything? What is the emotional underpinning of that? What is the what, what more work do you have to do in that area?

Jaclyn Steele:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know we're talking about Hashimoto, specifically, but I feel like for those of us that are suffering with health issues, what an opportunity, it is as frustrating as it is to really learn how to treat ourselves. And if we can learn how to treat ourselves, well, that is a springboard for any kind of goal. We want to accomplish any kind of dream we want to run after, really, it kind of opens up the whole world. And I don't think for me, I don't think it was any coincidence that I was diagnosed at the time of my life that I was, because I feel like I was at a point where I needed to break through to the next level of my own understanding. And this has been such a giant propelling catalyst to do so. Yeah. Okay, well, we're wrapping up. And I'm sad about that because of a

Unknown:

topic here.

Jaclyn Steele:

Oh, good. Good, good, good. Well, anytime you want to come back on, you have an open invite. And if you want to promote a book, anything you let me know. So this is the last question for someone who feels like they have hit rock bottom with their thyroid issues, whether it's hyperthyroidism, hypothyroidism, or hashimotos. What is one piece of helpful advice that you have for them, because you are such a distributor of hopeful solutions? And I appreciate that so much, because so often when people talk about thyroid conditions, it is like home drunk, this is the worst, but it's not.

Unknown:

First of all, rock bottom is an incredible blessing, in my opinion, because, you know, pain is a touchdown of growth. desperation is sometimes a great motivator. So if you hit rock bottom, that's a good place to because you can't you're not going down any further. And so if you take inventory and like okay, let's, maybe now you're willing to take you know, Some drastic steps, like really changing your diet and really committing to, to the changes you need to make, you know, a lot of times you will hear these things. And, you know, I think about learning real learning is about changing your behavior. It's not about just hearing something, and then intellectually understanding it, especially with regard to some of these health issues we're talking about. It's like, some of this really requires behavioral change. So sometimes by hitting rock bottom you like you reach a place where, yeah, I'm just going to take those steps because what I have to lose now, you know, so I think that's, I guess, I think it's a blessing in a way. Yeah, yeah.

Jaclyn Steele:

I do, too. What?

Unknown:

What steps to take, start with diet diet is the is the foundation to any successful approach, I think, yeah,

Jaclyn Steele:

yeah. And get your book, because I know, it's fantastic. I mean, this one, this really is this is how to heal hashimotos. This is an encyclopedia full of so much digestible information, the way that you communicate. thyroid education is very unique. I know that you are a doctor and a clinician, but you make it understandable for those of us that are potentially overwhelmed by the amount of information that we need to take a lot

Unknown:

of information. And the other thing I do in that book is I I was painstaking to do a lot of research and find evidence based studies to support what I'm saying to so there's a lot of information in there that you can take to your doctor and say, well, check out this study because they're all footnoted, you know. That's the other thing that's important that we have credible research to back up what we're talking about.

Jaclyn Steele:

Well, I Dr. Ryan, I just see you as such a trailblazer. And I feel like you are giving so many of us who are struggling with this disease, such hope. And then also a roadmap and action steps of what we can do, versus these complicated systems and articles and going to all of these different doctors, I feel like the way that you have presented this information and shared it is so unique, and so incredibly, in deeply helpful. So thank you from the bottom of my heart for creating this and doing the work that you do. Because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt, it is complicated. And that has not been an easy road for you to walk.

Unknown:

Totally, it's complicated. I think I really that's I really appreciate that.

Jaclyn Steele:

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean,

Unknown:

that's the company. And I think it's combination of years and years of research and work and talking about the use I talked with. I talked over 1000 people just to writing that book 1000 people will actually mode. And, you know, the other thing is to like you said the is about action steps it's about I think it's also I think the knowledge is empowering, you know, so I want everything I knew at the time and I know know more and more now, but the books a few years old, but at the time, I didn't hold back, I put everything I knew in that book. So there's a lot of great information in there to understand how all these things interact, and then some good action steps to

Jaclyn Steele:

Yeah, well, I'm going to link that book. I'm going to link your other book about your eating plan. And then how can people find you online and get in touch with you or book an appointment? Yeah, so

Unknown:

I mean, I have social media presence on Facebook, Hashimoto, Facebook forward, slash hashimotos. healer. I'm on Instagram at sorry, hash motors healing on Facebook hashimotos healer on Instagram. My website is hashimotos healing calm. So you can anyone can email me at mark at hashimotos healing calm, I'll answer your your email questions if you have them. Sometimes I respond faster to a direct message on social media. Because I try to post something daily or almost daily, they reach me, um, you have to make an appointment, you could just reach out that way. And I'll send you a link. I offer a free 30 minute consultation for people to if they just want to do a strategy session and pick my brain about what's going on with them too. So that's

Jaclyn Steele:

Yeah, the fact that you have made yourself so accessible also blows my mind.

Unknown:

Because Can I talk to someone I learned more about it. So to me, it's not a waste of my time. It's a very valuable use of my time. Because, you know, it's very complicated and everyone's different. So, literally everyone I talked to I learned something from so I get a lot out of it too. So it's not just good Selfish motivation.

Jaclyn Steele:

Well, I know I understand how that goes. Well, I will link all of those resources in the show notes. I'll also link to your social media profiles. And, again, Dr. Ryan, what a blessing you are. And thank you so much for sharing this information so freely and so generously because it's literally changing people's lives including mine.

Unknown:

Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Jaclyn Steele:

You're so welcome.

Unknown:

I really enjoyed it.